LCD and Dual View

[Mentor]

Hello all,
I am new here and need some help about a feature.
This is my system setup.

Moncaso 972 7"Touch screen case
GA-MA780G-UD3H (Rev 1.0) Motherboard with onboard VGA/HDMI/DVI graphics out
AMD phenom X4 9500 Quad Core 2200mhz cpu
3Gb DDR Ram
SAPPHIRE Vapour X HD 4850 1GB DDR2 PCI-E Graphics card with native HDMI/DVI/VGA
Windows 7 Ultimate.
Toshiba LCD is connected to HD4850 grapics card via HDMI
SG7 is connected to GA-MA780G-UD3H Motherboard via VGA in extended mode (BIOS setup to surround view)

Major problem is: the frontview on the SG7 disappears when I turn the main display (LCD) off, windows desktop moves over to the secondary display (SG7).
If the SG7's resolution is 800X600 the only thing I see on the screen is the background colour only but no front view.
If the resolution is higher then I see both the desktop and SG7's background colour on the SG7's screen but still no front view.

The above configuration worked perfectly up till yesterday on Windows Vista ultimate.
I could turn the main display (LCD) off without loosing the frontview. Now I am on Windows 7 Ultimate.

Is this windows 7 problem?
Can you fix this?
I want the front view to prevent desktop from comming over to the screen, so that I can use the front view without the main display on, just like before

Regards
Mentor

[johnny.hur]

Dear Mentor,

(8) [Bug Fix] When connected to TV, if TV off, Touch LCD FrontView disappears
This issue is already added to our “To Do List”.
It doesn’t happen on all systems connected to TV.
Although we still need more test and check, I think that it mainly comes from graphic card driver and TV.
In your case, when TV is off, there is a display change but FrontView doesn’t receive a message related to display change from Windows.
In normal case even when TV is off, there is no display change.

Please try to update your graphic card driver to the latest version and let me know the result.

Regards,
Johnny Hur

[Mentor]

Thanks for your response, I have updated the graphics driver to the latest one for windows 7 from ATI, It didn,t help at all.
It is like windows overides frontview.
When windows main disaplay (TV) is turned off it finds the next available display; the secondary display (SG7) with frontview running, it just takes over this display and override frontview.

[Kernel]

This is problem similar to mine posted here: http://www.soundgraph.com/forums/showthread.php?t=379 (the thread was closed).

I use WindowsXP pro SP3 with the latest Ati video drivers (I have an Ati Radeon HD4890) so it's not a Win7 fault.

4 months passed and I can't use front view without TV.
I've tried also using ultramon, but there's no way....
I paid 500€ just to have the capability to use media without the necessity to turn on the TV so you can imagine the frustration.

[johnny.hur]

Dear All,

In our test lab it doesn’t happen with TV connected system.
But we still need more test on this problem.
If possible, please capture the whole desktop with “PrintScreen” when TV is off and send it to me.

Regards,
Johnny Hur

[Mentor]

Moncaso 972 7"Touch screen case
GA-MA780G-UD3H (Rev 1.0) Motherboard with onboard VGA/HDMI/DVI graphics out
AMD phenom X4 9500 Quad Core 2200mhz cpu
3Gb DDR Ram
SAPPHIRE Vapour X HD 4850 1GB DDR2 PCI-E Graphics card with native HDMI/DVI/VGA
Windows 7 Ultimate.
Toshiba LCD is connected to HD4850 grapics card via HDMI
SG7 is connected to GA-MA780G-UD3H Motherboard via VGA in extended mode (BIOS setup to surround view)

Major problem is:
Frontview on the SG7 disappears when I turn the main display (LCD) off. (Picture iMon-2 attached)

When both LCD and SG7 are connected to HD4850 both deskto and fron view background apperas on SG7, front view can not be used (Picture iMon-1 attached)windows desktop moves over to the secondary display (SG7).
Disables fron view.

Regards
Mentor

[Kernel]

The problem is that when TV is turned off windows recognizes that and the touch lcd (SG7) becomes the primary display (with 1920x1080 "scrolling" res).
When TV is turned on again it's a mess: resolution on touchscreen is 1080p (tv res) with desktop icons, windows bar, etc..., and the TV becomes 800x600. I have to manually reconfigure all monitors settings.

I've tried all ati drivers options, but I was not able to resolve the issue.

I've tried also ultramon ( http://www.realtimesoft.com/ultramon/ ), but with no success.

If I use a secondary PCI video card, can I resolve? Is frotview capable to run on a secondary video card?

[johnny.hur]

Dear All,

With the captured images and your report, I think that this problem is as follows.
When TV is on, the whole resolution is 1920x1080(TV) + 800x600(Touch LCD) and coordinate (0,0) is the left top corner of TV.
But when TV is off, the whole resolution is still 1920x1080 + 800x600 and coordinate (0,0) is the left top corner of Touch LCD.
Although we still need more test and check, I think it is related to graphic card driver.
And we need time to check and find the solution. Please wait for a while.

If you mainly want to use FrontView while TV is off, please try as follows.
1. Select 1st monitor and disable “Run Touch LCD FrontView” in iMON Manager>iMON Utilities>FrontView>Common tab.
2. Assign the unused button to “Turn On/Off FrontView” function in iMON Manager>Settings>Windows Command>Keyboard Command.
3. Then when TV is off, you can launch and close FrontView with the assigned button.

Kernel// You can select 3rd or 4th monitor for FrontView in iMON Manager but I’m not sure that the secondary graphic card can solve this problem.

Regards,
Johnny Hur

[Mentor]

Dear Johnny,
your trick almost worked, see details below:

When both LCD-TV and SG7 are connected to Radeon HD4850 both desktop and front view apperas on SG7, when TV is off and front view can not be used (Picture-1 attached) It is still thesame when you turn SG7 Off and On again.

But:
When LCD-TV is connected to Radeon HD4850 and SG7 is connected to motherboard. it works by turning it off and on manually. (This is when surround view is enabled in the bios, if you have that option but not everyone have that option in their bios)

It is a step in understanding the problem.
Thanks.

[oswaldo]

Hi,
I had the same problem , that is that when i turned the tv off things would screw up and media center would run on the touch screen,
Here is how i fixed it,
From the start menu, run msconfig,
once opened go to services and disable AMD's Hotkey Poller application ,
thats a service that detects what is plugged in and out of the vga ports.

nvidia possibly have the same type of app, but i am using amd/radeon.
hope that help everyone,....
ps: i found this on toms hardware review of the dh102 case, have a read they explain things better...
cheers...

[DarqMan]

I disabled AMD Hotkeys in Catalyst but still have this issue. Other suggestions?

Thermaltake DH102
Windows 7, 64-bit

[carteriii]

I am a new user and also having this problem. I don't know if it helps, but I believe this is a symptom of Windows 7 new TMM (Transient Multimon Manager) which is supposedly "better" at handling multiple monitors. The situation is worse if/when you use an HDMI or DVI cable to a television as the primary monitor, because Microsoft's copy protection doesn't want to allow that display to remain on, for fear that someone might replace the television with a recording device.

I've found that a lot of system administrators have this problem when using KVM switches to control multiple computers from one keyboard, monitor, & mouse. For example, here is one thread:

http://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/en/w7itproui/thread/6c6e4ccc-713a-4e98-afe3-9d9024bc8ca4

So while Windows 7 makes the problem worse, I do believe the iMon drivers are not handling it very well. For me, I cannot even get the iMon LCD screen to display anything after I turn my television off for a period of time and then turn it on. The LCD screen usually shows for a while, but eventually becomes blank. I've even rebooted and it didn't come back several times.

This does make it impossible to use iMon to simply play music while the main television (connected via HDMI) is disconnected. I'm using an ASUS M4A785TD-M EVO board with the built-in Radeon 4200.

[DarqMan]

I almost went with that board, but decided against the onboard video. I ended up with ASUS M4A79XTD EVO and used my existing ASUS Radeon 4550. ATI just announced their budget 5xxx series cards that will bitstream TrueHD audio so I'm looking forward to that upgrade.

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3720

How do you like the 785g board?

Regarding the issue at hand, I've tried everything I possible can and nothing I do will allow me to use the front player when the TV isn't turned on. Not being allow to use the touch screen with the TV turned off means you have nothing more than a glorified VFD.

[carteriii]

So far I'm loving the 785g. The Radeon 4200 and built-in audio is plenty for being a basic media center PC.

I'm wondering if it's possible to set the LCD display as the primary, so it isn't affected so much when the television is turned off.

I hope people from Soundgraph and Silverstone (who makes the case I bought) are listening because as you say, their product is going to become absolutely worthless if these touchscreens cannot be used except when the television is on.

[Mentor]

I have tried Johnny's trick below and it works but with the irritation of having to turn the touch lcd on and off manually.
I guess you will ahve to use both the on board graphic and the pci-e for it to work.....
and in the bios you will have to enable surround view if you have that option.
It works for me great right now.
(Win7 Ultimate, gigabyte 780g, ATi 4850-HDMI + on board HD3200-DVI,)

=====================Johnny Hur=============================

Dear All,

With the captured images and your report, I think that this problem is as follows.
When TV is on, the whole resolution is 1920x1080(TV) + 800x600(Touch LCD) and coordinate (0,0) is the left top corner of TV.
But when TV is off, the whole resolution is still 1920x1080 + 800x600 and coordinate (0,0) is the left top corner of Touch LCD.
Although we still need more test and check, I think it is related to graphic card driver.
And we need time to check and find the solution. Please wait for a while.

If you mainly want to use FrontView while TV is off, please try as follows.
1. Select 1st monitor and disable “Run Touch LCD FrontView” in iMON Manager>iMON Utilities>FrontView>Common tab.
2. Assign the unused button to “Turn On/Off FrontView” function in iMON Manager>Settings>Windows Command>Keyboard Command.
3. Then when TV is off, you can launch and close FrontView with the assigned button.

Kernel// You can select 3rd or 4th monitor for FrontView in iMON Manager but I’m not sure that the secondary graphic card can solve this problem.

Regards,
Johnny Hur

[carteriii]

This issue is already added to our “To Do List”.
Hey Johnny,

You say this is already on your "To Do List." Are you working on it now? When can we expect a fix to this problem?

Thanks.

[DarqMan]

Yeah, when will this be fixed?

[oswaldo]

I disabled AMD Hotkeys in Catalyst but still have this issue. Other suggestions?

Thermaltake DH102
Windows 7, 64-bit

umm, interesting because mine has been working flawless ever since i switched that off. the only other thing you could try is disabling the tmm task, goto run then type in scheduler (i think) should bring up the windows task schedule module, then search down the list for mobile/tmm, (please backup or at least record the details befor trying this just in case) then disable or delete the task.
the config i have is tv set to monitor 1 and small lcd set to monitor 2 , then in frontview make sure you have the correct setting to reflect this, I am running windows7 with the latest imon install...

[MikeDeez]

Add me to the list of people experiencing this issue! Thermal Take DH-102 case, Nvidia GeForce 430. TV connected via HDMI as primary monitor 1, touch LCD as monitor 2.

Anyone figure out a permanent solution? I'll be trying the tmm disable trick shortly. I'll post results if successful.

Thanks,
-Mike

[carteriii]

I was never able to find a permanent solution. I don't doubt that ATI is part of my problem, but since SoundGraph doesn't seem to care enough to follow up and help support their product, I haven't been able to do anything more other than tell people not to buy any of their products. As an individual, I feel helpless and wish I'd never purchased a SoundGraph product. I'll be tremendously grateful if you or anyone can find something that works for me.

[Saiyandt]

I had this issue recently. The problem happens if you connect you hdmi to receiver then from receiver to TV.

If you connect from PC using HDMI to TV and using onboard digital soung to receiver then you won't see this problem happens.

The drawback is you won't have DTS-HD sound with this connection.

Can sound-graph re-create the problem and let us know ?


PS: I have the silver-stone CW03 and I'm facing the same problem with all you guys described earlier.

[Jerry]

Hi,
I found this old string but can't find any solution to it?
I have a Zalman HD160plus case and am running W7 Ulimate 64bit to a 1080p screen via a Onkyo amp with an HDMI cable from a ATI radeon HD4600 PCIe.
My whole theory was that I would be able to use the HTPC for everything but TV and video without switching on the screen by using frontview. It sort of works but often messes up the screen config by not detecting the main screen after its been on and off to record something or just use the PC for audio.

I've used this workaround to make it easy to correct it each time but its not pretty!

Any suggestions?

Oh and BTW Blackgolds new Freeview HD card is awesome, straight out of the box!

Cheers

Jerry

[carteriii]

Unfortunately you may be out of luck, as we all are. SoundGraph hasn't updated the Win 7 64-bit drivers in a long time, and is taking the attitude that the problems are just related to the motherboard/video drivers. Unfortunately as an individual, I cannot get ASUS to pay any attention to me. I wish SoundGraph would do some more to make their product work, but they either don't care or don't have the time/money to bother. I'm a very unhappy customer, which is a shame because this could be a great setup if it just worked.

[Saiyandt]

I have CW03 and ATI 5x graphic card with my HTPC.

1. When I use HDMI from graphic card to my receiver, I have the problem screen resolution. When I turn off TV or receiver, the touchscreen becomes the primary monitor and it switches to 1920:1080 resolution and Imon becomes out of work.

2. I have to connect HDMI directly to TV and use spdif from onboard sound to my receiver then I don't have the problem above. However, with this approach, I can't get the passthrough for DTS-HD or any 8 channels bit-stream.

Is there any solution for this? I am using windows7 professional 64bit.

Thanks

[johnny.hur]

Dear All,

This issue was already added to our “To Do List”. But it still remained unsolved for long time because we thought it mainly come from graphic card issue and other issues had high priority than this. I’m sorry for this delay.

I think it may be difficult to make a perfect solution for this problem if iMON can’t get the correct display information from Windows (OS). But I think iMON could make Touch LCD work without turning on TV. In order to do so later, we may need your help and request some test. We’ll really appreciate your help.

And we’ll inform new update schedule via this forum and revise “To Do List (http://www.soundgraph.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45)”. Please wait for a while and check the following post about the update schedule.
http://www.soundgraph.com/forums/showthread.php?p=15655

Regards,
Johnny Hur

[Saiyandt]

This is one of the answer that I got from other site:


A GenFen HDMI Detective should fix this problem. Unfortunately, it's not cheap; but, for those that break down and buy them, it's typically the end of these crazy HDMI issues. Basically, the HDMI detective makes it look like the AVR is always there; when you power it off, there should be no change at all in what Windows is seeing/doing with your screens (just like VGA used to be, for example).

It's a really stupid defeat that shouldn't be necessary.

You can also try disabling the "ATI External Events" (or "AMD External Events") service in Windows, that MAY resolve the problem for you. Same idea; with it disabled, the video card shouldn't be able to get updates about the monitor status. An EDID override shouldn't be necessary (in this case), but it never hurts, you may want to try that as well.

However, I have a feeling, if disabling the service doesn't work, you might as well just get out the checkbook and call up GenFen. Make sure you thank the DMCA and movie companies on your way over there to spend a bunch of money on something that's totally unnecessary save for HDCP. You know, that "secure method" of transmitting digital signals that's caused many of us HTPC owners countless hours/days of time trying to work around.. That secure method that just had it's master keys leaked, and will never be an effective protection method ever again..

[muppet]

still no sullotion?

i am also waiting for a fix.... but takes ages


sorry for bad english (i am dutch)

[carteriii]

Unfortunately there is still no solution. I finally broke down and bought one of the GenFen HDMI devices.

I still have other problems with the software from SoundGraph, but they don't even reply to messages in these forums for which they don't have an answer. They simply ignore customers when they don't want to help. I wish I never bought their product.

[muppet]

lol i getting the same idea i wish i never bought a imon product....
there is 0% support

they help no nothing.....

[gokul.s]

Dear All,
We think this issue is caused by the Graphic card driver which fails to detect and notify the OS about change of primary display which is creating abnormal functining of display. Also we have noticed fix for this issue is for one user is not working for others, and hence this is specific to the individual hardware. iMON SW only cannot fix this problem since this is not, bug or issue from iMON itself, what we wanted is to find some workaround for fixing this issue. We tried to reproduce this issue in our test lab but we regret to say that we couldnt and hence we couldnt provide one workaround which can fix this issue.

Please
1. update your Graphic card drivers
2. Try johnny's suggesion for fixing this issue.
3. oswaldo suggesion for fixing issue.

regards

[muppet]

i updated all drivers on the htpc...
what's jonny's suggestion???
and wat's oswaldo's suggestion???

[muppet]

it still ****s

and it stil doesn't work..

[muppet]

this is my problem in short....


look at the youtube link ... http://youtu.be/iZ-YJzsy8cE

[muppet]

sorry for double post..

[dartmen]

I have troubles to but the solutiuns was realy simpel and it work very wel for me .
The problem every time i shut down my tv Resolution change windows7 64 bit this picture resolve my problems http://postimage.org/image/2g8p5dwdg/ sorry for bad english i am dutch to :D